The ground rule double at Fenway

  • に公開 ヶ月 前

    MLB NetworkMLB Network

    Harold Reynolds, Hunter Pence, and Greg Amsinger head to Studio 42 to break down the much talked-about ground rule double at Fenway in ALDS Game 3.

Richard Long
Richard Long

Ppl are so knee jerk about this, sometimes crazy things happen in baseball. The last thing we need is to put the umpires in a position to make a judgement regarding a runner's exact position when a ball is unplayable. This was a ground rule double that happens time and time again in baseball. If the rays wanted that run to count so bad they should have gotten him in scoring position.

ヶ月 前
BKK
BKK

Amsinger makes MLBN unwatchable, along with a few others.

ヶ月 前
Joe Massarelli
Joe Massarelli

I feel like if the rule was changed from if a fair ball enters foul territory its a ground rule double to the runners get whatever base they are approaching plus 1 (with the exception that if two runners are approaching the same base the second runner is only award that base) there weren't be any issues.

ヶ月 前
Bella linhart
Bella linhart

Hunter just sounds so stupid just get out the way and not get the ball to stop diaz from scoring like hunter shut up

ヶ月 前
Thomas Burris
Thomas Burris

Even if they give the Rays the run here, don't they still just lose 6-5? Next batter struck out to end the inning and the Sox scored the walk-off homer in the bottom of the same. Game Over, same result.

ヶ月 前
Kado
Kado

The rule is perfect the way it is. The important part is not having intent to cause the ball to leave the field of play. To Harold's point early in the video, the fielder can't do anything about the play once the ball is over the fence. If the ball had stayed in play but the runner trips or the fielder has a cannon arm and could have thrown out the runner, once the ball is over the wall, the fielder is screwed. So you can't screw over the defense by effectively treating it like a triple or home run, and you obviously can't screw over the offense by calling it a single. So you compromise and call it a double. Hitting to deep center does not entitle you to 3 bases. Everything else (the fact that it was the go-ahead run, the fact that it happened in a park with a low fence, the fact that it hurt the Rays and benefited the Sox) is circumstantial and could happen to any team.

ヶ月 前
jonathan williams
jonathan williams

Isn’t that the same thing that happened to Jose canseco?? He was trying to catch a ball hit deep to right field but as he made his attempt to catch it, the ball hit him on the top of his hat then went over the fence for a homerun. I’d like to know what the ruling is for that play.

ヶ月 前
jonathan williams
jonathan williams

@Thomas Burris gotchya

ヶ月 前
Thomas Burris
Thomas Burris

the difference is that this ball hit the ground first.

ヶ月 前
Jay Roman
Jay Roman

kind find too many passionate baseball talks nowadays everything either basketball or football

ヶ月 前
ORagnar
ORagnar

4:38 What I got out of this is that Harold doesn't like the Red Sox. :-)

ヶ月 前
Andrel Johnson
Andrel Johnson

Top Reasons the Tampa Bay Rays continue to struggle and come up short winning the World Series: 🧢⚾ 1) They have good and very good pitchers but not Aces like a Randy Johnson of old back in the day, or John Smoltz or Tom Glavine of Braves back in the day. They need at least one Ace pitcher (not for regular season) for the playoffs and the remaining 21 games rotation at the end of each season. They have been that good since 2008. 🧐🤨🤔⚾ 2) They are a real "Moneyball" baseball team...great at scouting talent, developing talent, and building a very good regular season team in a very competitive AL East. But they tend to trade away pieces which takes away from their hitting chemistry in the postseason. They could learn from the 1996-2003 Yankees. 🏟️⚾🚁🚁🧢⚾ 3) The Rays need to move from Tropicana Field to Ybor City, the baseball heart and soul of Tampa Bay. This is where people truly will come to games and fill out arenas unlike the fans in St. Pete that show up in mass only during the postseason. This Cuban- American community is where The Tampa Bay Buccaneers fans of all races celebrated winning the Super Bowl. 🤫🤫🤫🤫🤫😬😬 4) The Rays fans don't know how to cheer rallies like other fans away because they don't come to games regularly in St. Petersburg which goes back to my above point. ⚖️👨‍⚖️⚾🧐🤨🙄👉 5) The Rays we're robbed twice in Game 3 costing them a championship. A retagged stolen second base was ruled out when it should have been safe after the long review. With Randy Arozerena up, it likely would have brought in 1-2 runs with 2 outs still remaining and another hitter. Instead, it saved Boston. Then in the same game but in Extra Inning a triple play which would have brought another 1 run in and left 1 on third being Randy Arozerena would have all brought the Overtime Score (if needed) to 2-4 insurance runs above the score putting pressure on Boston to do more than hit a homer. ⚾ Boston Red Sox know the umpires and refs saved them but will lose badly to Houston Astros.

ヶ月 前
KWally
KWally

Media bellyaching about this to try and get views. Fluke incident because of the uniqueness of Fenway. It'll pop up every now and again with the Rays having those 10' sections of 4' wall in each field, but not enough to change the rule for it. Play on.

ヶ月 前
Suburbia Jones
Suburbia Jones

This is highway robbery, they are supposed to take into consideration whether the runner would have scored or not.

ヶ月 前
Phillip Satkowski
Phillip Satkowski

This is outrageous (Super sarcastic tone)!! If Yandy had scored then the Rays would’ve taken a one run lead when the next batter struck out. Then when Vazquez hits a Two (count them, it’s two) run homer ...... then, ummm ..... well I guess the Sox walk it off either way. My mistake, with all media hype i mistakingly thought that call changed the outcome of the game. Don’t I feel silly.

ヶ月 前
John Kordyback
John Kordyback

Greg: on the optics. In football and basketball the team on offence puts the ball into play. In baseball the team on defence puts the ball into play. That’s why it’s the beautiful game.

ヶ月 前
Drumf Bum
Drumf Bum

If you change the rules every time the 1/1,000 moment happens, you slowly get rid of the game.

ヶ月 前
Raines
Raines

I bet Reynolds also defends the laughable rule that allows a runner to potentially reach first base after strike 3.

ヶ月 前
Raines
Raines

Not surprised to see Harold Reynolds is still terrible after all these years, defending a ludicrous rule that makes a mockery of this sport.

ヶ月 前
Ing Nino
Ing Nino

The rules is wrong, it should be a 3b no a 2b, bacause as Hunter said is an outfielder mistake (error) not intentional but is an error.

ヶ月 前
chimi124
chimi124

Ground rule double takes away runs more often than it allows for runs that otherwise wouldn’t have occurred. Make it 3 bases instead of two to solve all problems. It doesn’t penalize a team for a run that otherwise should have been scored 9/10 times, and you don’t bring umpire judgment into the equation

ヶ月 前
philip lp
philip lp

literally the same thing happened in the rays favor on july 26th 2019 against toronto

ヶ月 前
RadioNul
RadioNul

ice hockey defender accidentally deflects puck into own net.... tough shit

ヶ月 前
James Owen
James Owen

doesn't mater its coming back for game 5 now

ヶ月 前
S P
S P

they need to increase the height of the wall. Just like fence behind the bullpen, they should add that to the front of the bullpen. Also, what happens if a pitcher that is warming up, or the catcher throws the ball away, and ends up on the field during a play? Also, why don't places like Tampa and Oakland put up a wall to separate the bullpen and foul territory?

ヶ月 前
Ty McCann
Ty McCann

Rule will need to be addressed and likely changed this off-season. The umps got the call right based on how the rule is written, but that's not a fair outcome to the team.

ヶ月 前
CU2012GIRLS
CU2012GIRLS

GROUND RULE DOUBLES TAKE AWAY RUNS ALL THE TIME REGARDLESS IF IT HITS AN OUTFIELDER FIRST. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. A ground rule double is still a ground rule double.

ヶ月 前
Tim Wing
Tim Wing

In 2019 the Rays were on defense when a ball was hit to the left field and bounced off a Tommy Pham and into the stands. The runner who scored was moved back to 3rd base after Cash had talked to the ump. They knew about the rule.

ヶ月 前
Christopher Liebman
Christopher Liebman

@philip lp thank you!

ヶ月 前
philip lp
philip lp

@Christopher Liebman july 26th, 2019 tb@tor

ヶ月 前
Christopher Liebman
Christopher Liebman

What game was this? I need to know so I can argue this point with you

ヶ月 前
Jopflah
Jopflah

Hey Tampa you got your off the roof “BOGUS” home run and you got you FAN INTERFERENCE home run so shut the hell up.

ヶ月 前
djc
djc

Sports journalist bellyaching aside, the rule does not need to be changed. Ground rule doubles are inherently unfair. Sure, it bounced off of a defender. Not a big deal because nobody (not even the Rays manager) thought it was intentional. Then ESPN guys complain that the outcome benefits the team whose player misplayed the ball, as if this is unheard of in other sports. I guess they never saw a football team where a ball is fumbled, bounces out of bounds, to the benefit of the team that fumbled. Is that fair? On a rare bizarre play, I'll take consistent rules over the elusive concept of "fairness".

ヶ月 前
MintFinkeldove
MintFinkeldove

Even if they let him score on the play from first, Boston still wins in the bottom of the inning with a two run jack. GG.

ヶ月 前
Andrew Vellucci
Andrew Vellucci

Harold is on point here, I'm a Red Sox fan so i see why it's not as frustrating for me. The way Harold explains the uniqueness of Fenway is how everyone should look at it. At most other ball parks that bounces off a 10 foot wall and isn't a discussion, it's what makes baseball special

ヶ月 前
Jaqen H'ghar
Jaqen H'ghar

Was it frustrating to Rays fans when they got the exact same call against Toronto in the playoffs 2 years ago?

ヶ月 前
Nani C
Nani C

The funny thing is these Red Sox haters making a big deal over a rule that’s been in place for a long time…. As the movie Frozen sang… LET IT GO……LET IT GO

ヶ月 前
Jeff Jacobs
Jeff Jacobs

One of the luckiest breaks I've ever seen. Yandy Diaz scores and McHugh is most likely pitching instead of patino. Not to mention Margot was safe at second, randy should have been at 3rd in the 8th but got tangled up with schwarber. I saw bad calls all game.

ヶ月 前
philip lp
philip lp

@Jeff Jacobs idk maybe you’re right about margot, we didn’t get a good angle.

ヶ月 前
Jeff Jacobs
Jeff Jacobs

@philip lp schwarber walked straight into randy and Margot got his foot back on the bag before being tagged. I could see an argument about the schwarber incident but Margot was 100% safe

ヶ月 前
philip lp
philip lp

Margot was out sorry, and Schwarber wasn’t even watching Arozarena when he bumped into him, and I don’t think he would’ve made it to third anyway.

ヶ月 前
John Bemery
John Bemery

The rule applies equally to both teams, It wasn't written to favor the Red Sox. A bunch of crybabies can't handle the truth.

ヶ月 前
Phantom Memer
Phantom Memer

To me the problem here is that the ball was clearly going to remain in play since it was bounding back toward the infield before hitting Renfroe and bouncing over the fence, propelled by HIS momentum. Unintentional contact or not, the ball stays in play if not for contact with Renfroe. If it hits him and goes back to the wall, he can retrieve it quickly and hold KK to a double, but the run scores easily. If it hits him and gets by him a little bit, the runner scores and maybe they can get KK at third if he tries to stretch it to a triple. If it doesn't hit him or deflects away a decent distance the runner scores and KK has an easy triple and maybe tries for an inside-the-parker. MLB needs to consider momentum in cases like this. Was it the momentum of the BATTED ball that caused it to go out of play, or was the momentum of the ball changed by the deflection in such a way as to cause it to go out of play? Yes, that would be a judgment call. But that's why we have umpires and replay. In football if a defender intercepts a pass at the 2-yard line, crosses the goal line, and is tackled in the end zone it could be either a safety or a touchback based on whether the officials decide it was a result of the defender's momentum before the catch or the defender's actions after the catch. Why can't baseball have a similar rule?

ヶ月 前
Bwill
Bwill

@murpj5 are you dumb? The catwalk homer was a homer because their was no way possible that it would have stayed in play if it wasnt for the catwalk, hunter literally hit it out of play based on his own mistake. Thats why the rule is bad in a certain way

ヶ月 前
murpj5
murpj5

did you have the same issue with the catwalk Homer? the reward for the play is a 2 bases. that's a positive. it's 2 bases untested. the problem people are having is the Ray's left 2 men stranded the very next bat. had they scored, no one would care. each park had a few odd rules, but this is fenway. that rule predates the Ray's existence. Also, totally not understanding the Red Sox hate. like they weren't the MLBs whipping boy for 80 f*cking years.

ヶ月 前
Russell Bradley
Russell Bradley

Great comment. Agree with all of it

ヶ月 前
Andrew Harvey
Andrew Harvey

I love Pence saying that Renfroe should have got out of the way of the freaking ball. Like, he should've known the ball was going to carom off his body and over the fence. Renfroe misplayed it by thinking he had a chance at the catch and then ending up in no-man's land where he couldn't properly field it. Just accept the rule and move on. We caught a break. Wouldn't have had to if Cora had either left Nate in for one more or brought out Whitlock in the 8th. And honestly how often does this happen in the regular season? Probably not enough to warrant an obnoxious rule change. Like, if a ball hit down the line explodes on a fielder and he boots it into the stands that's not materially different from what happened and yet no one would bat an eye.

ヶ月 前
N. Suarez
N. Suarez

It’s the rule but the rule should be changed

ヶ月 前
Cole Jackson
Cole Jackson

Either way doesn’t matter ? Dude after him struck out and then we got a two run homer so would outcome be different?

ヶ月 前
Jeff Jacobs
Jeff Jacobs

Most likely McHugh is pitching and not patiño and there's a good chance he never hits a homerun

ヶ月 前
John Andersen
John Andersen

If manfreds gonna keep change rules haphazardly he might as well change this one too, should be ruled the same as a fielder miss throwing a ball into the stands.

ヶ月 前
Ihatechaucer
Ihatechaucer

I really have a problem with people talking about changing this rule already. I think it’s fine the way it is, but regardless it seems as though everyone is just so quick to jumping to conclusions. So many of these rules they had were just fine for a hundred years, then 1 strange play happens and suddenly they have to make big changes to what already is a good game.

ヶ月 前
Ty McCann
Ty McCann

@Television Archive Studios it's convenient this conversation involves Tampa, because they have venue specific rules (the catwalks). Maybe that's what it would take for the ivy, hard to say. Either way, I said it before and I'll say it again, the umps got the call right based on how the rule is written now. But I think this is something MLB should take a look at, because as we have all discussed, a team got rewarded for making a misplay. Maybe MLB discusses making that rule that applies uniquely to Wrigley a Wringley specific rule. It's really hard to say. I'd personally think that would be similar to if a player threw a ball out of play. But I do think there is a distinction between a dead ball and a ball that goes out of play. But again, all of this is just my opinion.

ヶ月 前
Television Archive Studios
Television Archive Studios

@Ty McCann Amend it for what? In Chicago players have kicked the ball or tried to catch the ball near the Ivory and it's gone into the Ivory. It's the same thing as what happened in Fenway. The Umpires got it right.

ヶ月 前
Ty McCann
Ty McCann

@Television Archive Studios they may be in-play, which is the key here, but the ball went *out* of play. Which is what we're discussing. I'll reiterate, the call by the umps was made correctly based on how the rule is written. But I think the rule should be amended. That's my opinion.

ヶ月 前
Television Archive Studios
Television Archive Studios

@Ty McCann No. Read the rule book. The Ivy at Wrigley is part of the playing field. As for Fenway, The Wall is part of the playing field as well as the player

ヶ月 前
Ty McCann
Ty McCann

@Television Archive Studios I think there's a difference between a ball going into Ivy (dead ball) versus going over the wall (out of play). Those circumstances are treated differently everywhere else.

ヶ月 前
Sean
Sean

No wonder the Tampons are so upset. Since when does anyone from Florida care about laws or rules?

ヶ月 前
Ihatechaucer
Ihatechaucer

The funny thing is, if the ball deflected off of Hunter and went over the fence before it touched any of the ground, he would’ve been “penalized” as they say because that would be a homerun. I think this rule is fine the way it is, but regardless it just shows how strange things happen in the game of baseball.

ヶ月 前
Ihatechaucer
Ihatechaucer

It is crazy, but like I said strange things happen in the game of baseball. It’s part of the reason why I love this sport.

ヶ月 前
mrmacross
mrmacross

I'm fine with always punishing the defense for not making the play. The weird thing about this play is that if Renfroe fielded it cleanly, the runner from first scores. If Renfroe didn't field it cleanly but managed to deaden the ball as it hit his body, the run scores. But Renfroe made essentially the worst possible play he could and that gave him the best possible outcome in those circumstances. Completely bizarre.

ヶ月 前
Reese Winkler
Reese Winkler

Great explanation and breakdown. I do think it should be noted: 1) if there's less than 2 outs, this ground rule double would probably have given the rays an extra base as Kiermaier may have been tagging, or at least playing half way. 2) if the ball hits off a player and goes over the fence before touching the ground it's a homerun. So there are definitely cases where unintentional touches hurt the defense... I think the rule should stand as is, and we just have to take these pretty rare oddities as a part of the game. A rule change here would probably make the game less fair, or put more into the hands of umpire judgement which makes no one happy.

ヶ月 前
A_A_Ron n
A_A_Ron n

Cry more Tampa 😂

ヶ月 前
mrmacross
mrmacross

I think the NFL has a good rule on kickoffs and punts that can be applied to these types of batted balls in MLB. In the NFL, if a kickoff or punt gets deflected off the returner and goes out the back of the end zone, it's a touchback. The ruling there is that the impetus for the ball's path was the kick itself. However, if the returner creates new momentum to knock the ball out of his end zone, it's ruled a safety. For instance, say a kick returner is standing on his 1-yard line. The kickoff bounces out of his hands and goes out of bounds in his end zone. It's a touchback. On the other hand, if on a punt the returner runs backward to field it but drops it at his 10-yard line, and then accidentally kicks and it goes into his end zone, the impetus for the ball to go into the end zone is no longer the punt itself but the returner's batting it backward (accidentally), so he has to advance the ball out of the end zone or else it's going to be a safety. I think the MLB ruling was meant for players who tried to field a bounding ball but could only barely graze it and it continued out of play. But if you significantly change the momentum or direction of the ball, you have to rule it as though an error occurred.

ヶ月 前
mrmacross
mrmacross

@Jack Hammer Sigh... I'm not saying football is the reason to change the baseball rule. I'm saying football has an analogous situation to explain what to do when players accidentally deflect or bat (unfortunate use of the term since "bat" means so many things in baseball) balls in play. Or rather, other sports have rules in place so baseball can make one, too. I'm just saying football makes a distinction between when a ball glances off a player and continues its path, versus when a ball bounces off a player and completely changes direction. Baseball can (and should) do it, too. I own two Bizarro t-shirts, so you're OK with me.

ヶ月 前
Jack Hammer
Jack Hammer

Using a rule in football.. To try to explain why there should be a change in a rule in baseball.. Is the epitome of idiocy..

ヶ月 前
akaAKillerAnt
akaAKillerAnt

Goes against the integrity of the sport. The rules are in place to promote fairness; the rules do not determine fairness. There is no reason a baserunner in that situation should have to return bases he's clearly tagging if the ball was played under normal circumstances. Give KK two, sure, but Yandy scores every time. EVERY TIME. But for the time the outfielder makes an error/blunder? Its completely backward. Rays go up 5-4 and the last out of the top of the thirteenth plays out differently, let alone the bottom. Should Diaz score there, theres an infinitesimal chance that walkoff plays out the same way. Granted, maybe its a three run shot that time around, but Patiño's gonna pitch differently with the lead and all this becomes a huge "what if" because the MLB prioritized an obscure ruling over what made sense in respect to the actual, live game.

ヶ月 前
Jack Hammer
Jack Hammer

Yeah screw the rules, let's change them because this time it didn't go in the favor of the team I like.. And or against the team I don't.. Or better yet, let's just make everyone the winner.. And just give everyone a trophy and a banner.

ヶ月 前
AlmightyDew
AlmightyDew

Maybe add a ground rule triple if the ball's momentum is in-field before deflection over the fence. So if it's flying out and bounces over or bounces off a glove/head/shoulder it's a ground rule double; but if it bounces back off the wall infield then bounces off a player and goes out it's a triple (likely would have been triple if it bounces off wall and fielder misses the rebound anyway).

ヶ月 前
AlmightyDew
AlmightyDew

@Jack Hammer I don't give a shit about the Red Sox or the Rays. But the result of that just doesn't feel right. It feels like the Red Sox should have come out on the losing end of that particular play, but that's not how the rules treat it.

ヶ月 前
Jack Hammer
Jack Hammer

Or maybe just keep the rule as it's always been.. And not change something that's worked because it hurt the feelings of one teams fan base in one game..

ヶ月 前
John Lampros
John Lampros

I get being annoyed at what happened if you’re a Rays fan, but getting pissed at the rule itself makes no sense, it’s pretty much the only thing that’s fair to do in that situation. The ball was dead while he was rounding 2nd, so to give him three bases would be nonsensical. It was the right call.

ヶ月 前
Jay
Jay

@Marshall Thompson It's always been 2 bases from the starting base at the start of the pitch. But there's a subsection of this rule specifically that states if the ball was intentionally thrown out of play it's ruled as 2 bases from when the ball was intentionally thrown out of place. But it's clear in all the replays that this was unintentional therefore it's 2 bases from the starting base at the start of the pitch.

ヶ月 前
RadioNul
RadioNul

The fair thing to do would be to say tough shit outfielder, you knocked the ball over the wall. Like accidentally tipping the puck into your own goal in ice hockey.

ヶ月 前
Marshall Thompson
Marshall  Thompson

Fine, but is it two bases from where the runner is when the ball is pitched, or two bases from where the runner is when it goes out of play, or two bases from where the runner is when it deflects off the outfielder.

ヶ月 前
Mansur
Mansur

Just make it ground rule triple. If you cannot prevent ball going over the fence you should not be rewarded but penalized.

ヶ月 前
philip lp
philip lp

As a red sox fan, that seems like a better idea.

ヶ月 前
Cj Manza
Cj Manza

Harold Reynolds is on crack suggesting Renfroe was trying to cheat.

ヶ月 前
M M
M M

CJ Manza Reynolds said nor implied nothing of the sort. What's your problem?

ヶ月 前
Stephen Kaliris
Stephen Kaliris

What did he say that suggested Renfroe was trying to cheat? Watched it again and didn't hear anything like that.

ヶ月 前
Kurt Fritz
Kurt Fritz

Renfroe made a mistake because the ball hit him in the chest? Should be penalized? Hunter Pence… you’re an idiot

ヶ月 前
Matty11209
Matty11209

The umpire should have the discretion to award the runners the base they thought he would have got to.

ヶ月 前
Jack Hammer
Jack Hammer

No they shouldn't.. The can of worms "umpire discretion" opens up would only create more problems.. The rule is the rule for a reason.. And they have discretion if they decide it was intentional.

ヶ月 前
Thor Oakenshield
Thor Oakenshield

It's no different than if an outfielder who's making a solid attempt at a fly ball, accidentally deflects off his glove and goes in to the stands, it's a Ground Rule Double.

ヶ月 前
Brian Gudino
Brian Gudino

Pretty sure that becomes a home run if it hasn’t touched wall before the glove

ヶ月 前
Joe Carter
Joe Carter

Not a "ground rule double". It is a 2 base award.

ヶ月 前
Marshall Thompson
Marshall  Thompson

Got that right

ヶ月 前
Garry Harris
Garry Harris

MLB is FIXED! They didn't call interference on Schwarber and didn't call interference on Grandall in the HOU-CHI game either. MLB's finances were low last year so they will make up for it. Expect no less.

ヶ月 前
Jack Hammer
Jack Hammer

Hahaha and yet another soy boy with tears in his eyes.. Hahaha

ヶ月 前
B C
B C

i dont see what the problem is.... the argument is he should have been award a triple or...? what's the argument here lol

ヶ月 前
B C
B C

@Marshall Thompson or just leave in the rule that's been in the league for 90 years.

ヶ月 前
Marshall Thompson
Marshall  Thompson

The discussion should be "the two base award" is from 1.) where the runner is when the ball is pitched. 2,) where the runner is when the ball deflects of the fielder, or 3.) where the runner is when the ball leaves the field.

ヶ月 前
JJ running
JJ running

Kevin started at second and scored no question but the ball hit the wall then hit the defender and went out so they ruled it a ground rule double so runners were on 2nd and 3rd base instead of 2nd and a run scores. That run never scored and could have changed the game

ヶ月 前
reeseseater12
reeseseater12

The Rays didn’t score anyone else and the Sox scored 2 in the bottom of the inning, so in hindsight that run is inconsequential

ヶ月 前
Andres Cruz
Andres Cruz

@mrmacross im a rays fan the red sox have earned their two wins. Theyve been the better team in the past two games. We have not been able to keep them quiet and right after we get the lead the red sox come back. To win, we gotta keep a lead for more than 3 innings to start putting pressure to their lineup. But we scored 2 in the first and by the 3rd or 4th inning the red sox had already taken the lead. Is just annoying to lose a game to ricochet ball. Had the ball stayed in the fieldthat could have even been an inside the park HR.

ヶ月 前
Andres Cruz
Andres Cruz

@reeseseater12 no, because had he had a lead he would be more focused on forcing the hitter to chase and do long at bats to win game 3. When he didnt get the lead he would have not only pitch inning 13th but also inning 14th. He finished the night with like 18 pitches. Had he kept the zero on the 13th inning he probably would have finish the night with like 50 or 60 pitches in inning 14th and be gased out for game 4

ヶ月 前
mrmacross
mrmacross

Wouldn't say incosequential, but I think the Red Sox earned the victory nonetheless.

ヶ月 前
reeseseater12
reeseseater12

@Andres Cruz is he really known for a vastly different approach? I mean you’re facing the bottom of the order, you go after them. I think he just missed his spot and left one over the plate. If he is expected to pitch today too then why would that logic change? He would still want to keep pitch count low wouldn’t he?

ヶ月 前
Andres Cruz
Andres Cruz

You think being down in that inning wouldnt have change the approachby hitter or pitcher. Patiño probably will pitch today too so he knew he had to throw fastballs all over the plate and challenge the hitter rather than trying to have long at bats. If you are up by one though your approach as hitter and pitcher would have changed in the 13th

ヶ月 前
Zaykoo8844
Zaykoo8844

Dude is batting .091… RELAX Rays are going home.

ヶ月 前
Eddie Blaze
Eddie Blaze

Tell'em Harold it's a ground rule double plain and simple.

ヶ月 前
Television Archive Studios
Television Archive Studios

It happens at Wrigley with the Ivory.

ヶ月 前
Jordan Johnson
Jordan Johnson

Odd.

ヶ月 前
Jordan Johnson
Jordan Johnson

That is not crazy. /

ヶ月 前
Miami Mark
Miami Mark

I think they should change it to be up to the judgement of the umpires. If this ends up killing the Rays season that’ll be wild.

ヶ月 前
Random max
Random max

I responded to you because you said it’s a good rule! I know what the rule is but I think it’s a stupid rule!

ヶ月 前
Rouskey Carpel
Rouskey Carpel

@Random max The RULERS state that when a ball that was fair unintentionally deflects off of a player,batter and any runners that were on are awarded two bases from time of pitch.There shouldn’t have been a judgement call since the MLB rulebook specifically addresses this.

ヶ月 前
Random max
Random max

@Rouskey Carpel how is the team (Red Sox) being punished? The runner would’ve easily scored it should be a judgment call!

ヶ月 前
Jack Hammer
Jack Hammer

@Green Kirby completely different scenarios.. In this case it hit the wall first.. Same as the ground, then hit the player..if you can't see how that changes things than I don't knkw what to tell you..

ヶ月 前
Green Kirby
Green Kirby

You're punished for an unintentional deflection directly off you and out of play for a home run though. There's already precedence for a player on the defense being punished for the ball hitting off them when it would have hit the ground / stay in play if they didn't get in the way of it.

ヶ月 前
Nathaniel McDonald
Nathaniel McDonald

Can't wait to see if MLB ammends this rule over the winter.

ヶ月 前
Ghost WR Shorts
Ghost WR Shorts

@For Kobe lol exactly they won't change a rule when this was not intentional.

ヶ月 前
For Kobe
For Kobe

@Ghost WR Shorts bro u beat me by a damn minute lol

ヶ月 前
Ghost WR Shorts
Ghost WR Shorts

They wont

ヶ月 前
Montgomery Stanley
Montgomery Stanley

should be ground rule double plus an error to give him 3B

ヶ月 前
Jack Hammer
Jack Hammer

No it should be a ground rule double, like the RULE SAYS..

ヶ月 前
Thor Oakenshield
Thor Oakenshield

It's not an error.

ヶ月 前
KneeDeep2231
KneeDeep2231

Rays’ fairytale season ends tomorrow, this was crushing to them

ヶ月 前
C.S.R
C.S.R

It shouldn’t be the hitter that gets punished! If you’re an outfielder and it goes off-the-wall then hits the ground and then unintentionally hits off you then goes back into the crowd, then that should be outfielders fault! But to ding the hitter when he kept the ball fair but the outfielder caused it to go over the wall unintentionally or not should matter! But FYI major-league baseball will make double the amount of money if the Red Sox advance instead of Tampa Bay! Maybe even triple or more?!? It’s all about advertising rights and ratings and 100% that crossed their mind when making a final decision in New York! Because the explanation I got that’s in the rulebook still has holes in it that could still lead them to make a different judgment on what happened. And when we all saw them literally let the Houston Asterisks get away with cheating to win a World Series, we know MLB will do anything corrupt and dirty handed when it benefits them! FACT!

ヶ月 前
Edward Wong
Edward Wong

What about the ball that bounced on Canseco's head and went over the fence for a home run?

ヶ月 前
Michael Reyes
Michael Reyes

That didn’t touch the ground before it went over the fence. So it counts as a HR. Which they should have mentioned is also a possibility since it benefits the batter and not the defensive player like the ruling they’re discussing.

ヶ月 前
Travis' Teaching Toolbox
Travis' Teaching Toolbox

MLB Network. I am new to baseball and confused still. Is the defender considered part of the grounds? If the ball hits the wall and deflects off of the defender, then the defender is considered part of the grounds? Therefore, it is a ground-rule double? The defender engaged with the ball and inadvertently pushed it out of play. It seems to make more sense to grant the runners an additional base or two bases due to the misplay of the defender. Why should the offensive team lose bases because the defender put the ball out of the playing field?

ヶ月 前
Travis' Teaching Toolbox
Travis' Teaching Toolbox

@Xander McConnell I would say it's illogical. Why should the intentions of the fielder matter for the opposing team. The Jays players are supposed to say, "it's ok, he didn't gain possession." lol I mean, doesn't it make more sense to punish the team of the defender that did not make the play than punish the Jays who did nothing wrong? I'm not a huge baseball fan, but it just seems so illogical. Thank you for the video explanation and help in understanding the rule. I don't get it, but I appreciate your help.

ヶ月 前
Xander McConnell
Xander McConnell

They determined that Renfroe never actually "gained possession" of the ball, so when he made contact with the ball, it was as if he was part of the ground or wall. It's a weird rule but that's technically the correct ruling

ヶ月 前
Aidan Knight
Aidan Knight

If it's in the rulebook, it's a rule. A bad rule. But it's a rule. (Should be changed to reflect a fielder error imo, or at the very least scored as a normal double with a deadball)

ヶ月 前
Aidan Knight
Aidan Knight

@Jack Hammer The "Jose Canseco"

ヶ月 前
Aidan Knight
Aidan Knight

@Jack Hammer If the ball hits a fielder and bounces over the wall without hitting the ground, it's a homerun.

ヶ月 前
Jack Hammer
Jack Hammer

Nothing whatsoever bad about the rule.. What would be bad is if they changed it to reflect what you're saying.

ヶ月 前
Daniel Egan
Daniel Egan

If this is going to be the rule then outfielders should just start throwing balls hit deep into the outfield that they can't catch over the fence instead of in. Especially if there is a runner going on first. There will never be another triple again.

ヶ月 前
Daniel Egan
Daniel Egan

@Xander McConnell HAHA yeah, then having to chase down your own dumb throw and see if you can keep it from being a little-league home run.

ヶ月 前
Xander McConnell
Xander McConnell

@Daniel Egan imagine if the fielder didn't get the ball high or far enough though lol. that would be hilarious if he tried to throw it out but still missed

ヶ月 前
Daniel Egan
Daniel Egan

@Dave Bradley Obviously they would have to be sneaky about it, make it look like an accident.

ヶ月 前
Dave Bradley
Dave Bradley

its only a ground rule double if its unintentional. if you throw the ball into the stands that’s intentional.

ヶ月 前
Eight Eight
Eight Eight

936 views. I love baseball but man this Sport is dying.

ヶ月 前
Eight Eight
Eight Eight

If Tom Brady or Lebron or Steph curry walk into a mall, the place would go crazy. Mookie, trout, gerrit Cole could all walk in after and No one would notice them. That’s how it’s dying

ヶ月 前
Zac Carlson
Zac Carlson

It's midnight on a work night. Players are getting $350M contracts, how is the sport "dying?"

ヶ月 前
Oi Suzy
Oi Suzy

Standard bounce-out ground rule doubles are one thing. But intentional or not, if a fielder touches the ball and it goes out, the offense should be rewarded with an extra base. Diaz goes home, KK goes to 3rd.

ヶ月 前
Jack Hammer
Jack Hammer

Suzy and CSR.. Ya'll some serious idjits.. Lol

ヶ月 前
Thor Oakenshield
Thor Oakenshield

@jayjya0613 No, please let him wallow in his delusion.

ヶ月 前
Thor Oakenshield
Thor Oakenshield

@C.S.R And I was the second gunman on the grassy knoll, Paul McCartney has been dead since 1966, and Joe Biden got 80 million votes. Tell me, Mr. Conspiracy Theory, how did the "Powers That Be" also conspire to help the Sox win game 2? That sure is some planning to have 80 players, 2 managers, 10 coaches, 2 General Managers, 2 owners, the Grounds Crew, and vendors all in on it. Did they use magnets to help the hitter hit it on to magnets under the turf then to bounce to magnets in Renfroe's pocket, then bounce to magnets in the bullpen? Or is it all a computer simulation and the game wasn't really played? Please explain it. I await your explanation on pins and needles.

ヶ月 前
jayjya0613
jayjya0613

@C.S.R It's been a rule for 90 years... not just made up this post-season to benefit the Redsox... 😒🤪

ヶ月 前
Zac Carlson
Zac Carlson

@C.S.R that sounds neutral?

ヶ月 前
KillenEMsoftly
KillenEMsoftly

any runner on base during a ground rule double should automatically be sent home

ヶ月 前
nemo
nemo

@Feng Vang i see your point, but diaz was around third when the ball was hit over the fence. the rule needs revamping

ヶ月 前
Feng Vang
Feng Vang

So Albert Pujols is at first and the next batter hits a ground rule double, you’re saying Pujols should automatically score? Lmfao!!

ヶ月 前
Bailey Smith
Bailey Smith

shouldnt be a ground rule double, it should be a normal double with a deadball and all base runners advance to the next base. because Margot was around 3rd already he should have scored

ヶ月 前
Harrison Shayler
Harrison Shayler

Did u not just watch the video??

ヶ月 前
Zac Carlson
Zac Carlson

So MLB doesn't understand the rules, or you don't?

ヶ月 前
Kingflowh
Kingflowh

There's no way in hell the ball that bounces of and outfield wall should be an automatic double. That's a mistake by the right fielder not playing the ball of the wall. If that's the rule then it has to be changed. That's my opinion. Why are we awarding the the team that made the mistake is ridiculous.

ヶ月 前
Kingflowh
Kingflowh

@Cole Jackson that is not how it work lol. You change anything in the past the future is totally different.

ヶ月 前
mrmacross
mrmacross

@Xander McConnell I tend to think the rule is in place for specific circumstances, such as if a ball is drilled in the gap and the outfielder tried to cut the ball off before it went all the way to the wall. But, the ball was just out of reach of the defender, it glanced off his glove, and continued to bounce over the wall. The ball's momentum was going to bring it over the fence regardless, and in this case the outfielder's touching of the ball has little bearing on the play. But in this case, Renfroe badly misplayed the ball, so I don't think the reward should be the standard two bases for batter and all baserunners. Long story short, I think umpires should be able to make distinctions between incidental touching and booting the ball and significantly changing its trajectory and momentum.

ヶ月 前
Cole Jackson
Cole Jackson

Either way next guy strikes out and we hit a two run homer games still over boom

ヶ月 前
Evan Fox
Evan Fox

@Kingflowh stop, you know if this happened to your team you would be saying the same things as Red Sox fans

ヶ月 前
Andres Cruz
Andres Cruz

@Xander McConnell if the ball was drilled at 120mph and the players is super slow it would either be a HR or a long single. The position of the batter was irrelevant in this play. The problem here was the position of the runner. Is not like Yandi Diaz is a fast player. Yandi Diaz has below average to average speed and he was gonna score. Kiermaier speed is irrelevant in this argument. While yandi diaz was walking to home plate the ball went out of play. Even david ortiz would have scored from that play.

ヶ月 前
Romans 12:2
Romans 12:2

Intentional fumbles in football can't be advanced. Good rule.

ヶ月 前
Romans 12:2
Romans 12:2

Throw your right hip out and u shake it all about, do the hokey pokey...that's what it's all about!! -Reds fan

ヶ月 前
Gilson Andrade
Gilson Andrade

Yankees fans are more pissed than Rays fans about this. hahahaha

ヶ月 前
Francisco Leon
Francisco Leon

Yes if the ball drop on the bottom edge of the wall and reinfoe didn’t had any time to throw it then the rays will score

ヶ月 前
Parrothead Paradise
Parrothead Paradise

not the first time i’ll see this play get a “breakdown”, can’t wait to see what jomboy has to say

ヶ月 前
99bimmer
99bimmer

@mrmacross he already said he was doing one. He mentioned it during the live stream

ヶ月 前
mrmacross
mrmacross

@jayjya0613 Guessing you're not familiar with jomboy and his breakdowns. We watch the breakdowns mostly because they're funny. Check out some of his videos, great channel.

ヶ月 前
jayjya0613
jayjya0613

No need to wait. It's a ground ruled double, and runners are awarded 2 bases from where they started running. Not from where they were at during the time of the ball going out.

ヶ月 前
ashley p
ashley p

It never hit ground but still tyink its a gound rule double

ヶ月 前
Road Weary
Road Weary

It clearly hit the ground

ヶ月 前
Don Fielding Jr
Don Fielding Jr

it literally hits dirt before renfroe. wtf are you talking about?

ヶ月 前
SosTdm 617
SosTdm 617

Great breakdown of the Ground rule double my boy is a Rays fan he was like ohh we should've scored

ヶ月 前
99bimmer
99bimmer

It prolly only happens once a year. And out of those situations, it rarely affects the outcome of the game. They don't all happen in extra innings

ヶ月 前
Nani C
Nani C

@Ian Kingston I know it’s just time to move on and let the haters continue to cry and hate

ヶ月 前
Ian Kingston
Ian Kingston

@Nani C I ain’t complaining I’m a Red Sox fan.

ヶ月 前
Nani C
Nani C

@Ian Kingston could’ve should’ve but didn’t… it’s time to move on to game 4

ヶ月 前
Ian Kingston
Ian Kingston

It changes the momentum of the game though and puts a lot more pressure on the bats of the Red Sox in the bottom of the 13th. So it could of lead to a different outcome.

ヶ月 前

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